Chamrousse Transmontagne

Tha association has been created for the Domaine de l'Arselle.

The best for you (or the other TM sites owners) is to get in touch with your Conseil Syndical (trade union of co-owners) of the La Crete du Berger. They also have interest to create this type of association.

At least you can visit our small blog (internet site), where will find some practical information. We will up date the news regularly.

http://domainearselle.unblog.fr/

Here is a quick translation of the proof of claim letter kindly provided by Delisle Christian and ADICAC.

Kind regards

Sally

Co-owner contact details

…………………………………..

………………………………….

………………………………….

………………………………….

Country :…………………………..

Maitre DUBOIS (solicitor)

32 rue Molière

69006 LYON

France

Registered letter with acknowledgement of receipt

Date ……/ 07/ 2007

Declaration of debt claim, [as priority creditor ??].

Domaine de l’Arselle, Chamrousse.

Dear Sir,

I have owned a property at the Domaine de l’Arselle, Chamrousse, at Bachat Bouloud, since ……………. Apartment : ……….. …………..

I have concluded a commercial lease for furnished accommodation premises with the management company Transmontagne, referred to as the Lessee. This lease includes the payment by Transmontagne of an annual rent of …………. euros + VAT, i.e. ………….. including VAT.

Having received no payment from Transmontagne since 1st January 2007, I hereby send you my declaration of debt claim as a priority creditor [ ?](article 50. Law 621-43), covering the following periods:

23/12/2006 to 31/12/2006 : (………. /365 x 9 days …….. euros including VAT

1/01/2007 to 30/06/2007 : (………. / 12) x6 months ……….. euros including VAT

01/07/2007 to 08/07/2007 : (……../ 365) x 9 days ………..euros including VAT

Making a total including VAT: ………….euros including VAT

To this sum will be added the interest for delayed payment, which will be calculated at the time on the basis of the legal rate and the total period of delay.

I enclose a copy of my lease as proof of my claim.

I expressly desire that this debt claim [as priority creditor ?] be settled as quickly as possible and that you take into account that my personal situation does not allow me to bear a financial loss of this kind.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for your urgent attention in dealing with this matter.

Yours sincerely,.

Name and signature

For good form, a copy of this letter has been sent to the solicitor in charge of the defence of the interests of the co-owners of the

Domaine de l’Arselle.

Many thanks, Sally - please pass this on to your translator friend. I've included a copy in the pack going out to Domaine de L'Arselle owners.

Ben.

Important

This ranslation is correct. But you have to send your final letter in French language.

The Priority creditor corresponds to a precise French legal rank of our debt (créance privilégiée): You have 3 levels:

1- Super privilegié : the employees of the company

2- Privilégié: ourselves, rent contracts, state

3- Normal level: suppliers

This means that we have more chance to be reimbursed than the normal suppliers.

SARL EUREFI invoice - received a VAT invoice from them today for VAT for 2007. They didnt know that Transmontagne werent paying rents. I would recommend that anyone receiving a VAT invoice for 2007 contact EUREFI so they know you are not due to pay it.

Joan

very interesting developments for a company in such debt - they also don't answer the phone!

When do we stop having the wool pulled over our eyes, I am emailing my MEP and suggest everyone does the same.

Hi, I'm having major dificulties in another leaseback development, and I just noticed your site today

Your probably aware by now but there is news on various web sites today stating that Transmontagne will ask a Lyon commercial court for the equivalent of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. see below

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0743-transmontagne-go es-bust/

That's already done: since the 10th of July, TM is under the protection of the Commercial court of Lyon.

It means that a team of legal administrator, called by the court, is working in TM to control, study and find the solution to go out this crisis. This period will last 6 months, plus a likely additional period of 6 months.

During this period all important decisions (investments...) are under the responsability of this Administrator. He will give priority to positive solutions (instructions comming from the president of the court). The 4th of September it will have a session in the court, required by the president, to do a first analysis with the administrator. This administrator will take the responsability to pay our rents for the third quarter of 2007 (less 9 days).

They will study all possibilties: restructuration, new investors, sale the company in global or by parts...

For the period before the 10th of July, a Receiver has been delegated by the court: Maitre Dubois. His mission is to collect all the debt claims before the 10. You have (or you will) receive a letter from Me Dubois asking for your declaration: 6 months + 9 days in July. The foreigners have 4 months to do it (before the 10th of November). But don't wait.

The payment of this debt will happen in 12 months, the earliest. It's better to say that, we are not sure to be completely reimbursed. This letter you have to send, must be in French. We will give more information on the site of ADICAC: http://domainearselle.unblog.fr/

In this association we are working, with the help of lawyers, about the case of these companies who convinced us to do this investment and their level of responsability, further to their advices. We know the financial situation of TM was known, since several years, by companies specialised in this type of investment.

Despite of, please have a nice weekend

Is anyone aware of other L'Ecrin des neiges investors in Chamrousse who might want to form an association?

I have invested in L'Ecrin des Neiges also and would be interested in forming an association or at least making contact with other owners. The owners at domaine de L'Arselle seem to have organised themselves very well and M. Deslisle Christian is putting a lot of work into making that happen. I agree we need to get something similar going for L'Ecrin.

Hello

To l'Ecrin des Neiges investors

The best is to get in touch with the Conseil Syndical. May be you can find information about the CS in some letters or papers you received. The CS is a group of voluntaries co-owners existing normally in all sites of Transmontagne, acting to survey and control the expenses of the global property. Starting from this group, you can decide with them to create an association, for l'Ecrin des Neiges.

In term as we are all concerned by the station of Chamrousse, may be we could consolidate the two associations, to be more efficient. But that will be in a second step. Firts you must create your association.

Good luck

Hello All,

Does anybody know about new proposed leasing contracts being sent out to us or at least in discussion, other than Sofiscal ?

If so, any ideas on the yield, and what the yield is based on as property prices have increased ? I am still waivering about paying the tax etc or signing a new contract, as owners seem to get €1,300 a week during the high season and places are fully booked. I know there is a lot of hassle, but at least it's in your control.

Many thanks,

David

Hi David

Are you a member of ADIDAC? If so, have a look at the English speaking forum and that will tell you about what to sign and what not to. If you aren't a member of ADIDAC, I'd strongly suggest you get in touch with Ben Giles (English Coordinator) or Joan O'Sullivan (Irish Co-ordinator) or Christian Delisle (French Co-ordinator). All contact details can be found at http://domainearselle.unblog.fr/ ( click on 'Our friends) or if you scroll back through this thread you'll find the e-mail addresses.

Regards

Sally Brunt

We have not been paid our arrears for the last two quarters - what's your secret, Nick?!!!

To Amoo - we visited at the end of March and there was only a bit of building work still going on - everything else was fully constructed and operational - great holiday infact....!!

Sally B

We were also there in first week of April and everything looked fairly complete. Great holiday.

We've had no rent so I'm also intrigued to know Nick's secret. We did get a statement from Trnasmontagne yesterday showing the rent that is outstanding up until 9/7/07. Very helpful!

Richard

Hi i have an apartment in the swiss resort of nendaz managed by

transmontagne - does anyone know of a swiss version of your site?

I notice that some of you have recived statements which suggests some

activity. Has anyone had any corresondence about owners priority bookings

for the next ski season?

Like Amoo I received in the post today a Statement of sorts from Transmontagne re rent I have received in 2007 - which was February and waht appears to be waht I am owed up until 9/7 which equals € 5585 for 2 apartments

Did anyone else get this and the covering note which I can not translate

Andy

For all you people having translation problems, this year I bought a Brother printer/fax/scanner etc, which also came with free Systran translation software. Got it from Argos and it's brilliant. Anything I receive from France I scan in, click the translation button and hey presto I then have something that makes some sense! It cost less than £100. Brother do several models but you need to make sure you buy one that comes with the free Systran translator software. Can also be used to translate French websites. Ann

Just enquiring if anyone has been in contact with your bank/s to postpone payments because of problems with Transmontagne? I want to contact them but don't know whether I should ring them or e-mail them because of language barrier. Has anyone gone through this process? And what information do they need? If you have any information on this I would appreciate it.

Mags

We bought our chalet in Chamrousse through Assetz who are apparently having a meeting today(p.m.) with representatives from Transmontagne. They are going to send out e-mails with the result. Fiona Walker is the link from Assetz but she could/would not speak to me! Has anyone else had this reply or thought of taking legal action against Assetz?

Statement

Some of us already received a statement from TM. It is only a confirmation of the amount due by TM: the rents until the 9th of July 2007. You have to check with your declaration.

But unfortunatly they don't speak about payment.

Bank arrangement

If you have problems to reimburse your loan, you can write to your bank (in English, if not possible in French), reminding the situation with TM and asking to postpone your actual monthly payments.

Question to Mark731

are you owner in Domaine de l'Arselle? Thanks to let us informed if you received results further to this meeting.

e-mailed our bank requesting a deferral of loan and explaining the reason why but they have refused. As you can imagine we are very upset over this. Can anyone advise us on what to do next? It will be very difficult to make payments on a property that is not generating an income. Our bank is Credit Agricole. Awaiting with interest your reply.

to drimcongmaggie,

Can you tell me how and why did you choose the CA. Did you decide this choice further to an advice comming from the sales company responsible?

We purchase L'Ecrin des Neiges through Assetz, who have indicated that they are willing to put us in touch with other investors they introduced. If I can get a list together perhaps we can join forces?

We used Assetz to assist us in setting up our mortgage. They recommended Credit Foncier who have refused to defer payments for six months while the administrator reviews the company. I have requested that Assetz bring some pressure to bear in the hope that they will take a more reasonable view (they presumably have introduced other Transmontagne affected clients to Credit Foncier).

Has anyone else had any joy in defering mortgage payments pending the six month review?

Judy

Dear All.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Here is an edited version of the latest news sent out to the Domaine de L’Arselle Owners Group. It includes info that may be useful to other Transmontagne apartment owners. Please note that, regretfully, I can only deal directly with UK-based Domaine de L’Arselle owners, but I will continue to post any useful info I hear on this forum. If you are a UK Domaine de L’Arselle owner and haven’t heard from me (packages were sent out at the end of July), please contact me ASAP – my contact details are on http://domainearselle.unblog.fr/

I understand there are efforts underway to create an owners group for L'Ecrin des Neiges owners. I can’t recommend enough that you get together with co-owners of your Residence de Tourisme. The next Transmontagne Court hearing is September 4th and there’s a good chance they won’t exist after that. Beyond that, you will need the leverage that an Owners’ Group brings if you want to negotiate a new management deal – whether that’s with Transmontagne if they continue to exist - or a different organisation.

Ben Giles – UK Coordinator, ADIDAC (Domaine de L’Arselle Owners Group)

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------

Domaine de L’Arselle UK Owners’ Group News Aug 25th 2007-08-26

• If you have received a CA12 demand for TVA (VAT), this is a message from Joan, the Irish Owners Coordinator: "Hi all, I received a letter from SARL EUREFI today invoicing me for VAT. I phoned them to query it and was told that they have estimated the VAT due for 2007 and this is the amount I was invoiced. They didn't know that Transmontagne was in receivership or that they hadn't paid any rents, which surprised me, and they asked me to confirm this by email so that the VAT would not be due. You should all be receiving the same letter, so the email address is eurefi.mail@orange.fr, and her name is Daniella Loffredo."

• There is an extraordinary AGM for the Domaine de L'Arselle on October 6th at 2.30pm. I'm going to head down there. If you haven't been and you can spare the time, I can't recommend enough a quick visit to get a proper feel for the resort and how it all looks etc - it's so much clearer to me now, having just been down there. You'd also get the chance to meet Christian Delisle and ask him any questions. Please let me know if you'd like to join me down there.

• If you're having difficulties paying a French mortgage on your apartment, please get in touch. ADIDAC have offered to write on your behalf to any French Bank. They're confident that they can create some adverse PR for any banks that are unsympathetic and that there's quite a lot at stake here for the entire Leaseback industry. If you're experiencing difficulties, it's worth a shot.

So, Chamrousse. My wife and I got there on Tuesday morning, the weather was miserable and the place seemed deserted. But by that evening, suddenly everyone appeared and I'd estimate there were around at least 300 cars along the road that services all of the Domaine de L'Arselle apartments - for 500 apartments in such miserable weather conditions, the apparent occupancy levels were very reassuring.

We then had a meeting with Joachim, the Transmontagne manager for the Domaine de L'Arselle. He was very helpful and his answers frank - no doubt partly due to the fact that he will be leaving for a new job in a Swiss resort at the end of September. He feels that TM are good at running lift systems but not so great at managing Residences. TM aren't taking Winter bookings yet - but I guess they can't yet as they don't know if they'll continue to exist after the next Court hearing on September 4th.

All in all, the resort looked well managed, there was a programme of activities for guests and the properties are good quality holiday apartments. There are few minor details in some of the apartments that need to be addressed - exposed plumbing in some bathrooms for example - evidence that building was completed hurriedly in time for the December 2006 season. The manager, Joachim, told me that the original developer/builder is due to return in September to rectify any such faults - but it's something else I'll follow up. Other business owners seemed very upbeat. One Restaurateur spoke of constantly good levels of clientele and how Chamrousse has a regular stream of visitors all year round - especially as it is only 30 mins from Grenoble.

Overall, I was left with the overwhelming feeling that we are very fortunate that Christian Delisle and others have created this Owners' Group. At the moment, TM is under protection from it's creditors. But after September 4th we might decide to give the management of our apartments to another company, eg Pierre et Vacances etc. One of the French owners is well connected with the tourism business and has so far been in discussion with several of the big players about what they can offer us. By operating as a united group, we have a lot of leverage in any deal and my visit has reconfirmed to me what an excellent product we have.

In case you're unsure, we should get paid for most of the 3rd quarter of 2007 (anything owed after July 9th 2007.) As part of the administration process, money for apartment owners during this period has been ring-fenced, regardless of whether TM will continue to trade after Sept 4th. Anything owed prior to July 9th is dependent on the outcome of our claims sent to the Receiver, Mr Prebois.

Hope that helps. I'll forward any developments as soon as they arrive.

Kind Regards,

Ben.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------

Does anyone know what our options are should Transmontagne continue to not pay rents or an alternate company comes along and refuses to honour the original agreement?

We clearly have the right to take back the apartments, but where does this leave us with regard to VAT, mainatenance and usage of the apartments?

As a long term capital investment a ski apartment without a leaseback agreement is more likely to appreciate in value than in a leaseback. Would a situation where owners take percentage of the rental income rather than leaseback be a more lucrative option. Clearly, this has a higher risk, but the current situation where we are losing rental and do not have the flexibility of permanent usage is not acceptable.

Thoughts please.

Martin.

I don,t know if everyone has received the e-mail fron Asstez following the meeting with TM.It does,nt actually tell us anything that we didn,t already know! I am wondering whether to really stick an oar in the works of Assetz and other u.k. based agents by sending out a blanket letter of danger for other would-be leaseback investors. I have got the general impression that they do not want to know that the buying process is over and they have had their commission!! Solidarity may pack more punch- any thoughts?

I have received a bill from a company called Lamy for 97,95 euros.for charges to the village/commune do I have to pay this?

Martin.

Regarding TM not continuing, it shouldn't be a problem for Domain de L'Arselle owners. As per my info above, we're already in talks with other management companies which leaves our options open if TM die or we decide not to give the contract back to them. They're currently in breach of contract so when the Receivership protection ends, we're free to take the business elsewhere if we choose.

I haven't managed to get solid info re taking vacant possession. It seems nobody I've spoken with has heard of a precedent where a managment company has defaulted like this. However, on the face of things, your VAT status would end as you'd no longer have Residence du Tourisme status, leaving you to pay back most of the 20% TVA refund.

On the other hand, having visited the apartments, I can't imagine how anyone could block your access to your apartment (as I told you before, there has been a horror story where a company has insisted on 3 months notice with the exact names of whoever is going to visit etc.)

If you don't need to rent your apartment and you're happy to pay back the VAT, you may have a viable proposition. But consider the fact that if everyone does that, you're suddenly in competition with up to 500 other apartments and the value starts looking decidedly shaky.

Regarding Mark731's post, again I reiterate the importance of getting together with other apartment owners - in the long run, the advice I'm hearing is not to rely on the investment company you bought through to sort this out.

Your L'amy bill is for insurance (either public liability or buildings - can't remember which way round off the top of my head) and maintenance of the public areas. It's a legal requirement to have a 3rd party maintenance company and you'll need to pay it or face further demands from L'amy.

Ben.

Ben,

Thanks for your response. I guess my concern is that we are presented with a worse deal from a future management company without fully understanding what the alternative options are. It seems unfair if we are forced to take on a less acceptable rental agreement because the alternative is to pay back the VAT and go it alone. This would start to undermine the whole leaseback industry as companies could take advantage of the 20% hold they have over their owners.

I think that we need to clarify the unprecedented area as, at the moment, it appears to weaken our position.

Best regards,

Martin.

I feel the best way should unfavourable terms be offered is to adopt the traditional French farmers/lorry drivers' apporach with direct and decisive action - block all ski runs during Feb half term week and indeed block the roads leading to them! This will certainly ensure our plight is widely publicised!

Let's hope TRansmontagne/prospective buyers are watching this site and take note - the Brits aren't all easy going push overs!

I read somewhere recently that if the leaseback Management company is the defaulter, then they, not the property owner, may be responsible for repayment of the VAT if the property cannot continue as a leaseback, ie if we cannot find a management company who can take on our development under terms that are reasonable to the investors. My French isnt good enough to search the net to check this out. Does anyone else know if this is really the case?

If it is, then this would put more pressure on the French government to find a solution to the current problem, as there is not much chance that they will recoup all of the VAT for all of the Transmontagne properties from a bankrupt company!

The comment that if the leaseback Management company is the defaulter, then they, not the property owner, may be responsible for repayment of the VAT if the property cannot continue as a leaseback makes more sense. Can anyone verify this statement?

Hi, on a slightly different note in regards to the Domaine de L'Arselle apartments in Chamrousse, I've received a tax demand for 557 euros today from the Taxes Foncieres department (a blue form rather than a revenue green form). Does anyone know what this is for. I'm assuming that this is acommunity charge rather than income tax. This is my first year as an owner so I am receiving such items for the first time. Any ideas. I assume we still have to pay in the present circumstances. I must admit I was unaware of a community charge bill if this is what the bill is for.

Mike

Mike,

I too received a demand for the same amount. This is the ownership tax and I too did not realise that we were personably liable for this - I was given to understand by the charlatans who sold me the place that the Leasing company took care of all other expenses and so one's rent was net but of course this would now appear not to be the case. I believe that we are liable for this as well of course for any VAT charged on the rental income. I must say it very quickly appears that this does not really stack up financially even if one gets the rent. I have some friends in France who seem pretty shrewd investors and they have several leasebacks so I have sent them a mail asking what the situation is with regard to who pays what. A costly lesson learned in performing a thorough due diligence and not believing people who have an interest...

Nick

Many thanks Seamus. Interested to note you say that the property is taxe foncieres exempt for the first two years. What then does one do with the tax demand (It is for Tax fonciere)? This is the first year the property has been habitable and even if it relates to when purchased that is still only 18 months ago. Thanks for the clarification on the VAT. My accountant has just prepared some papers for me that allow the Government to take the VAT and any taxes due as a result of the rental income directly from my account which is what prompted my belief I was responsible for it.

Nick

Hello everyone, I am a new member to the Forum.

I have been looking at the Erna Low website and they are taking bookings for Winter 2008.

Can TM take bookings when they have no formal contract in place with the owners?

Is this good or bad, I don't know?

Seamus,

I mailed my French accountant to see what she thought and these are her replies:

1. Are leasebacks Taxe Foncier Exempt for the first 2 years?
---> On new buildings, there is a possibility of having a total or
partial exemption for the first 2 years.
If you've received forms from the tax office called "Taxe Foncière",
then you are only partially exempt and you still have to pay the amounts
shown.

4. Am I liable for VAT on the properties?
--> YES.
The rental income you receive includes VAT (5.5% rate).
This is why we complete VAT declaration forms on a quarterly basis to
declare the VAT you owe to the tax office.

This suggests that Domaine De L'Arselle and other properties
in Chamrousse which were both new build and rennovation are
not Taxe Foncier exempt for the first 2 years.


The VAT is as you suggest - rents paid include VAT and this
is reclaimed.
Regards,

Nick

Nick

Does this mean we still have to pay the "Taxe Foncière" that they are caliming even if we have not recieved any rentals

Andy

I'm continuing to monitor the situation through this site and via the Association, which I would recommend as many people join as possible). I'm resigned to the fact that I will not receive any rent for many months as it will take some time for the situation to be resolved.

However we want to book flights for our planned Christmas trip to our apartment. Although the winter booking forms aren't due to be sent out until next month (under normal circumstances) I know what dates I require and as we know the earlier the flights are booked the cheaper they are! I am however a little nervous about booking flights in the current circumstances.

I don't even know if the resort will be running this winter although I assume it will be as TM are effectively being run by the administrators for now.

I'd welcome any thoughts that others might have.

Thanks,

Richard

Can someone post the latest on Transmontagne? I understood there was to be hearing on 4 September.

I don't have a property in Chamrousse (though I stayed at Domaine de L'arselle in March!), but I'm buying a prop in Switzerland where one of TM's subsidiaries is the manager, and am a bit concerned.

By the way, I think Chamrousse is absolutely fab, great atmosphere and fantastic value - I think the real market is in weekenders from Grenoble. I reserved a classic apartment at Cham 1750, but gave up due to incompetance (showed me wrong site!) and general unreliability of agent.

I don't know about the hearing but Transmontagne currently have 3.6 million euros in unpaid rent with a total debt of around 15million euros for a turnover of 60million euros in 2006/7. That is around 1500 euros unpaid per apartment.

TM are supposed to be presenting a "plan de continuation" to the Tribunal de Commerce in Lyon, in principle during September.

TM are not the only group in trouble. LifeValley who build leasebacks in urbain areas have financial difficulties.

Hi All.

ADIDAC, the Domaine de L'Arselle Owners' Group, is preparing a notice to send out to it's members regarding the latest info on the court hearing this week. I'll post a copy on here for other TM owners as soon as possible.

Ref TajRum's posting - I would be very cautious about investing in anything that TM are currently managing. Their future is very uncertain and you could go through all of the hassle that we're currently going through.

Ben Giles - UK Coordinator, ADIDAC