Chamrousse Transmontagne

Andy,

I am afriad it does seem to e the case. I will check again with another party some time today and also ask the folks who sold me the place. The Taxe Foncier has nothing to do with your rent - it is purely a property tax. Seamus I think it was did suggest we might be exempt or partially exampt but looking at the demand forms it says :

tous ou partie de vos locaux sont exoneres de deux ans de taxe foncier sur le parts departementale, regional voire intercommunale. this translates as all or part of your properties are exempt for two years.

If you look at the back page of the demand it shows the base as 1448 Euro and our contribution - cotisation - (after partial exemption I presume) as 337 or whatever your particular charge is. To this you then ad

The question I would have for anyone who knows is this: Does this mean that after year 2 the rate of property tax per year is 1400 - 1500 odd Euro on a property that brings in about 4700 euro rent? This is a shocking rate of of tax and I fail to see how this investment is economic at this level even if one does get the rent.

Any suggestions??

Thanks for the responses. TM's swiss subsidiary is not subject to the administration, and is supposed to be profitable - but I still remain concerned.

Thansk Seamus,

My point was that it has nothing to do with what rent one actually receives but is based upon an estimation of the value of the property - or you suggest they have used the *notional rental value*. Is that right? Either way you have to pay it whether or not you get any rent.

Nick

Andy, Seamus,

Looked further into this. It seems that Domaine De L'arselle and Ecrin Des Neiges are both liable for Taxe foncier and that it has been discounted by about 13% (of the total possible charge- 1448 and 1512 respectively for my appartments) for the Regional, inter communal and departmental elements. This exemption is only for 2 years and thereafter the annual tax bill will rise by another 230 or so euros to approx 700Euro per year providing the % contribution does not go up which it may well do.

Andy, do you recognise the address given for your property on the back page of the tax demand? The addresses I am being charged against do not appear to relate to the actual chalets but are 500 Rue des Chardons bleus and 940 Rue des Martinets. these might well relate on thelocal ground map but I do not recall seeing either before.

Nick

The swines are taking bookings thro to april 08 yet i havent been asked when i want it!

This is what I found on the French superdevuloy blog - the hearing on 4 Sep was adjourned, the administration continues, and the company is authorised to continue business until January 2008.

http://chaletsdesuperd.free.fr/dotclear/index.php

"Au cours de l'audience du 4 septembre, le Tribunal a maintenu la période d'observation et renvoyé l'étude du dossier au 2 octobre,audience au cours de laquelle seront présentés les projets de plan .La société est autorisée à poursuivre son activité jusqu'au 10 janvier 2008."

As promised, an update from our French co-owners. Sorry it's not more comprehensive - but hopefully you'll find the facts useful. Will update when I hear more.

Ben Giles, ADIDAC UK Coordinator.

After the hearing in court, (ADICAC was not allowed to attend) the Court President decided to look for potential buyers .
The latest date to receive proposals from interested buyers is September 28th.
Mr Gausset (President of Transmontagne) can still make a proposal if he manages to find 5 Million EUR by that date and convince all parties to support him.
Next meeting of the court is scheduled on October 2nd.

I bought in La Joue Du Loup - are there any other UK owners in this developement? Does each development have to have it's own group or can we all club together in any communications with TM? Any fresh news?

I've just received the form from Transmontagne allowing me to take up my usage option. We will be in Chamrousse commencing 22/12/07 (Christmas week) so if any owners who are doing the same would like to meet up for a beer, share ideas on the way forward or generally have a good old moan I'll be pleased to organise something.

Any suggestions for a venue would be good, but I would have thought the TM Bar next to the nursery slope would be a good starting suggestion.

I look forward to hearing from you.

I've also just booked the same week at Christmas so would love to meet up with others for a beer and a chat. Your suggested venue sounds good (particularly as it is literally opposite our appartment!)

Richard

Received whatI assume is a service charge bill from Lamy today for 92 euros. I seem to remember getting one in June so gather this is a quarterly payment.

I assume this remains payable although I'm not sure what it is Lamy actually do. If they are anything to do with TM can we not tell them we'll set off their charges against unpaid rent?

Obviously I'll pay if necessary but just wondered what others were doing.

Richard

HI

Have just found out about this whole issue. Is it too late to file a claim with

Dubois ?

Can anyone let me have a copy of the French form I need to send

Many thanks

Geoff (Chamrousse owner)

Hi Geoff,

You should join ADIDAC. I suggest contacting Christian Delisle chr.delisle@wanadoo.fr who has set up ADIDAC. Please provide:

Name, address, the exact reference (number, letter...) of your flat in Domaine de l'Arselle, and the name of the investment company that you used to buy your flat (for example, Assetz in my case).

Christian should be able to send you template letter for the receiver.

Hope this helps,

Martin.

Thanks for the info Nick.

I just found this forum so looking forward to monitoring Transmontagne's situation with the aid of this site.

Regarding the LAMY invoice (for maintenance of common area etc), our lease says that the lease company pays all charges. I called Transmontagne and they confirmed this. Looks like LAMY are chancing their arm by sending the invoice directly to the appartmnt owners and then asking them to counter claim off Transmontagne. SO I SUGGEST TO ALL CONCERNED NOT TO PAY THIS.

Regarding the Taxes Foncieres invoice, Transmontagne stated today that this should also be paid by them so again, I SUGGEST NOT TO PAY THIS EITHER.

Finally, is there a forum group specifically for Le Crin Des Neighes development or can we jump in with the existing Chamrousse one?

Although I think you are right about the terms of the lease I imagine that if TM do not pay, which of course they won't, then ultimate legal responsibility may fall on the owners. I think this is particularly true of the Taxes Foncieres. I'll hold off paying LAMY for now pending further views on the subject.

Regarding Taxe Foncière, here's a quote from Premier French Leasebacks and Investments guidelines on tax document:

There are two property taxes in France, the "taxe d'habitation" (property tax for the municipality) and the "taxe foncière" (land owner's tax). The first is paid by the tenant or the management company because you will not be living in your property. The second is to be paid by you, and usually amounts to about one month’s rental income. This will be included as a deductible expense against income as mentioned above. You are exempt from the “taxe foncière” for the first two years on a new build (law on new-build in France).

Also, check your Commercial Lease Agreement (Bail Commercial). Assuming yours is the same as mine, look at page 4, article 7 "Taxes."

"The LESSOR shall, be liable for all the taxes the law requires for landowners (in particular property tax.)"

To check the discrepancy in the translation, look at the Fench version,

"Le BAILLEUR fera son affaire personnelle des taxes et impots mis par la loi a la charge des proprietaires fonciers (taxes et impots, foncier notamment.)" Please excuse the missing accents.

I suspect Transmontagne are confusing the Municipal Property Tax with the Land Owner's Tax. One other point - you shouldn't pay Taxe Foncière for the first 2 years if it's a new-build (not sure of Le Crin Des Neiges' status.)

The Lamy bill is for insurance and maintenance of the public areas - we all co-own these areas (including the Reception) and our Lease Agreements allow TM to use them free of charge. However, we're required by French Law to use a 3rd party company to manage and insure them for Public Liability etc. You can ignore the bills, but I suspect you'll start running up interest and an eventual summons/demand for the money owed. But, for what it's worth, I was under the impression that Le Crin Des Neiges wasn't currently operative (in August, they still hadn't sorted out the plumbing) - so you might want to discuss why Lamy are involved when the place isn't even running yet and Joe Public haven't set foot in it.

As far as I know there isn't yet a Le Crin Des Neiges Owners' Group - others please correct me if I'm wrong. At the moment, ADIDAC - the Domaine de L'Arselle Owners' Group cannot deal with other Residences, but we're posting any useful info that comes up on this forum. Expect a bucketload after next week's AGM.

If I were you, I'd start another thread requesting other Le Crin Des Neiges owners to start collaborating.

Ben - ADIDAC UK Coordinator.

Looking at the terms of our lease, Transmontagne are responsible for coownership charges and costs associated with the running of our buildings. They are also resonsible for prompt payment of insurance premiums.

Could anyone clarify if they are aware if these payments and charges are being honoured? From my poor schoolgirl french, the letter accompanying the Lamy bill appears to indicate that they have not and that these charges are being passed on to us. Are we legally obliged to pay?

Judy

Have the BasXXXXs paid anyone any rent yet?

Transmontagne Chamrousse residents meeting this Sat 5th, so we should have more news then, but I understand that we shouldnt be holding our breath for payment...

We have an appartment managed by TM at La Joue du Loup and received our rent for the period 10th July to 30th September, it was credited to our french bank account on 1st October. Hopefully all owners will have received this.

great news , i pray we are as lucky, now waiting for our bank statement in Royal Mail!! is the joy ever going to end??

Found this fairly new article in the French press.

http://www.lyoncapitale.fr/index.php?menu=01&article=305 3

Sean

Looks like the following article appeared in the Irish press over the weekend.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qq qm=news-qqqid=27413-qqqx=1.asp

Martin.

Here is the European Parliament petition site

https://www.secure.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/peti tion/secured/submit.do?language=EN

It might not be a bad thing for all TM investors to petition for an equitable resolution from the French

Hi all,

if you have bought in the Chamrousse development of L'ecrin des Neiges, please go to the new topic called 'Chamrousse L'ecrin des Neiges' and email me your name, email address and appartment no if you want to join a contact list for this particular development.

Thanks

Trevor

ncorps

I have recieved nothing as yet from Transmontagne.I e-mailed them to ask when I might recieve payment and to point out that they are in breach of contract. I also think it's a bit of a cheek to ask for a 70 eoro charge to stay in my own apartment when they owe me rent.To date nothing, no acknowledgement or money!

more reportage

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0753-ski-resort-opera tor-transmontagne-bankrupt/

Firstly might i suggest that everyone in this situation notify the Company that we purchased from? Pressure coming from the sales companies may move things along. It is not in the interest of the French tourist business or the French property business to have investors in the leaseback scheme unhappy so making enquiries in as many areas as possible can do no harm. Also there are sales currently pending in Chamrousse so if the Company seems to be in trouble there will be a knock-on effect on these sales.

I have myself formally requested from Tranmontagne the emails of all Irish investors and am happy to build a database of tenants. Of course UK investors can join this database/ mailing list if you wish. My own email address is brijosullivan@eircom.net .

This issue does not just affect Chamrousse, but all Transmontagne's managed properties. I suggest that you contact Transmontagne with the same request, to be put in touch with all other investors in the same situation as yourselves.

On the note of contact from the Company - yes i have had a reply to my email, so the staff are still there, no doubt even more nervous than we are!

If they are going to pay the 1st quarter in July - be cautious! The latest I heard is that the financing company have initially refused their request for funding but have requested a Company audit. If they are happy with this (how long will it take to carry out an audit in the middle of Summer) then they may lend Transmontagne the money they need.

I also understand that a group of French investors have initiated an action against Transmontagne, so they are one step ahead of us. If anyone knows anything about this or more about our legal situation, please post.

If you know other Transmontagne investors please notify them of this forum.

Joan

Hello Oneworld,

We received a letter yesterday from Transmontagne but unfortunately we have to get it translated as it's in French. I have just e-mailed them regarding this. We also have not received any payments of late, and are a little concerned. I am very heartened by the fact that you are setting up a database for us as it gives us access to other people in the same situation. Please feel free to add me to that list mgtheffernan@yahoo.com . Well done. Will be keeping the forum informed!

Regards,

Mags

Hello All,

I am thinking of buying a Transmontagne property in Switzerland and am more than a little nervous about the comments above. Has anyone managed to find any financial information on Transmontagne to see how financially secure it is.?

regard

Miks

Mikec

Given the situation that those of us who own property in Chamrousse find ourselves in , I would tread carefully if I was in your shoes!

Alison

Hello all,

Yesterday I e-mailed the company that sold us the property in Chamrousse and this morning was relieved to receive a reply which you might be interested in. They confirmed that TRANSMONTAGNE are in financial difficulty, however, all is far from lost. They stated that they should hear about a takeover by the end of next week and they will be keeping me informed. So, as they say, watch this space!

Mags

We Used a company called French Property Ireland (fpi).

Hello fellow worried leaseback property owners in Chamrousse. My husband and I have read the posts above with interest - at least we know we are not alone now! We have contacted the agent through which we bought our apartment. She seems genuinely horrified and disgusted by Transmontagne and is on the case on our behalf. She is in the process of taking up the issue with Valority, the marketing agent. She says they are a household name in France, with offices in every major city - futhermore it is their job to ensure they only market good products - so hopefully they can bring some pressure to bear on Transmontagne. As and when she turns up any more info on this, I will post further.

In the meantime, like others above, we are sending, recorded delivery, a letter requesting confirmation that arrears will be paid in July. We have highlighted that otherwise we will charge interest on outstanding monies, which apparently French law allows, and pointing out that they are now in breach of contract and according to the contract we signed this renders the contract void. Again, if we get any response, I'll post accordingly.

Oneworld - please can you add us to your database - sally@brunt2310.freeserve.co.uk.

I purchased my property through Latitudes and have contacted them and informed them of the situation, they state they are looking into the matter. Did anyone else purchase through latitudes?

Alison

Dear ncorps

Would you be kind enough to post the letter you draft on behalf of your clients, or give an outline draft so that those of us who may have to act on their own can ensure we are saying the right things in our letters?

Apparently there have been talks taking place between Valority and Transmontagne and we should know more tomorrow - some agreement is being reached, seemingly - as and when I know more I'll post again.