Hi everyone, i had an interesting email from one of the owners connected to our development, Le Roc Belle Face. My main concern is that we become liable to repay the outstanding portion of the vat if all else fails and Soderev go into liquidation and no one else takes over the lease. I am told that there is a legal clause, that if 50% or more owners reject a decreased lease form Soderev, as long as 50% or more have rejected that the vat repayment cannot come into play. My own position is that i could survive on a lesser lease payment, but would not have funds to repay the vat. Any advice on this would be welcomed, regards, Chris. CJAce6141201.6883449074
I too am a Fermes de Samoens owner. I agree with the idea of joining forces and maybe a collective pooling of knowledge and ideas for response. There was an owners forum set up specifically for FdS, but it hasn't seen action lately. Maybe we should try to get that reinvigorated if we want to discuss matters specific to our development. This may become relevant should there be a consensus amongst owners to 'self manage' our units there.
However we should not detach ourselves from the larger grouping of disgruntled Soderev/Lagrange owners as there remains strength in numbers. Maybe Fabian is the best man for us to use to keep us in that game. Anyone talked numbers to him yet? For a class action against Soderev, if we need to do such a thing, the individual costs may not be large....!
I am not sure unilateral attempts to converse with Soderev/Lagrange will get far. They have shown themselves to be typically unresponsive on other matters, so on this larger subject I think they will have a group policy of only issuing occasional mass formal edicts as and when the developing situation requires that they do.
It is also likely that the process of receivership will put a large number of their staff out of work, so unfortunately irritations such as emails from foreign owners will be the last thing on the minds of those that remain! We will eventually find who is the party with whom we have to conduct further business and we will likely then be told what the 'new deal' is. It is at that point that we need to be ready with a coordinated response.
I am in agreement with Fabian Cordiez about us having a single attack front in this. However I will not be volunteering to take on the mantle of coordinator as I live in Dubai and believe the time difference and distance may become an issue if/when matters move on and documentation starts to flow.
However if there is a fellow owner out there willing to become our champion I will happily chip into the pot now towards any upfront fees that may be likely in what could become a group action.
Thanks to sandboh for posting that information from another site and thanks to Fabien for translating it. Do we know defintively that this is the legal position we are in? i.e. from the date of a renewed offer from Soderev (and presumably NOT from the date of safeguard) that we have this fixed time period (2 or 4 months depending on residency status) to respond and form an association for each development, assuming our response is negative??
This looks important and thus we all need to be aware of it if there is a fixed time limit open to us to respond and a formal mechanism we need to follow for negotiation with Soderev.
Fabien, are you able/willing to expand on this and let us know what form this 'association' of owners needs to take and what the negotiation with Soderev might entail? Any ideas on time and costs?? Does each development need its own association of owners? Would the precedents set by one associations fight with Soderev determine what happens when others try to negotiate with them?
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Lagrange-Soderev
Hi everyone, i had an interesting email from one of the owners connected to our development, Le Roc Belle Face. My main concern is that we become liable to repay the outstanding portion of the vat if all else fails and Soderev go into liquidation and no one else takes over the lease. I am told that there is a legal clause, that if 50% or more owners reject a decreased lease form Soderev, as long as 50% or more have rejected that the vat repayment cannot come into play. My own position is that i could survive on a lesser lease payment, but would not have funds to repay the vat. Any advice on this would be welcomed, regards, Chris. CJAce6141201.6883449074
Lagrange-Soderev
Carl
Our apartment is also in Samoens ( we also have one in Peemor Pen)
we do currently have a Uk solicitor working for us due to other issues
with Lagrange but would be happy to join forces. We have not received
anything from Lagrange regarding the sauvegarde but will keep you
posted if we do
Kate
Lagrange-Soderev
I have have a leaseback in les Fermes de Samoens, keen to
contact other owners to co ordinate response to situation,
have read Fabien Cordiez post but would like understand
implications of the options he proposes.
Lagrange-Soderev
I have been researching this issue fairly intensively.
There is a "Lagrange victims" network. Most of the sites
are in French (will post links if required). The group
has certain subsidiaries - Resitel and Cerenissme are two
others as well as Soderev - in which the leaseback
arrangements are placed.
The Lagrange group has, so far as I can tell
systematically put these subsidiaries into liquidation
while the main group continues to be able to trade.
This is a huge issue. The leaseback arrangements were
mainly marketed to overseas owners. I will contact some
financial journalists to see if they are interested in
taking up the story.
Meanwhile, from an owners perspective, I am trying to
become a client of Fabian (who knows of what he speaks)
and trying to engage in a dialogue with Lagrange. A
group that does not respond to emails, letters or calls.
Lagrange-Soderev
Carl (and others),
I too am a Fermes de Samoens owner. I agree with the idea of joining forces and maybe a collective pooling of knowledge and ideas for response. There was an owners forum set up specifically for FdS, but it hasn't seen action lately. Maybe we should try to get that reinvigorated if we want to discuss matters specific to our development. This may become relevant should there be a consensus amongst owners to 'self manage' our units there.
However we should not detach ourselves from the larger grouping of disgruntled Soderev/Lagrange owners as there remains strength in numbers. Maybe Fabian is the best man for us to use to keep us in that game. Anyone talked numbers to him yet? For a class action against Soderev, if we need to do such a thing, the individual costs may not be large....!
I am not sure unilateral attempts to converse with Soderev/Lagrange will get far. They have shown themselves to be typically unresponsive on other matters, so on this larger subject I think they will have a group policy of only issuing occasional mass formal edicts as and when the developing situation requires that they do.
It is also likely that the process of receivership will put a large number of their staff out of work, so unfortunately irritations such as emails from foreign owners will be the last thing on the minds of those that remain! We will eventually find who is the party with whom we have to conduct further business and we will likely then be told what the 'new deal' is. It is at that point that we need to be ready with a coordinated response.
Cheers
Adrian
Lagrange-Soderev
I am available to assist leaseback owners
with the filing of claims, for unpaid rents, in
Soderev's Safeguard proceedings.
I can also suggest in due course a co-ordinated response
to the situation and advise on options and legal & tax
implications. This is professional advice and is
something I would carry out on an hourly rate basis, or
for a fixed fee if a list of questions can be issued.
Given the number of queries I receive, advising clients
individually would not be cost/time-effective. May I
suggest that leaseback owners wishing to seek advice form
a group and perhaps someone could act as a co-ordinator?
Lagrange-Soderev
I received this from my accountant. It does almost sound worse for Soderev.
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
We have heard from other owners that they have financial difficulty and that
they went into liquidation.
Unfortunately they will not been able to pay you rents.
The final decision will be taken in November.
In this situation, you may have to contact the other owners and try to find a
new rental company.
Please note that the tax office may ask you to pay back the VAT on the
purchase price.
They are not aware of your situation but will be when they will receive the
2012 declaration in April 2013.
------------------------------------------------------------ --
Lagrange-Soderev
Same situation for me, we have a leaseback in Paradou, Le Domaine de Bourgeac.
We also have another one with Appart'City in Montpellier, L'Orangerie - anybody knows if they are in trouble as well?
Lagrange-Soderev
I am in agreement with Fabian Cordiez about us having a single attack front in this. However I will not be volunteering to take on the mantle of coordinator as I live in Dubai and believe the time difference and distance may become an issue if/when matters move on and documentation starts to flow.
However if there is a fellow owner out there willing to become our champion I will happily chip into the pot now towards any upfront fees that may be likely in what could become a group action.
Lagrange-Soderev
Thanks to sandboh for posting that information from another site and thanks to Fabien for translating it. Do we know defintively that this is the legal position we are in? i.e. from the date of a renewed offer from Soderev (and presumably NOT from the date of safeguard) that we have this fixed time period (2 or 4 months depending on residency status) to respond and form an association for each development, assuming our response is negative??
This looks important and thus we all need to be aware of it if there is a fixed time limit open to us to respond and a formal mechanism we need to follow for negotiation with Soderev.
Fabien, are you able/willing to expand on this and let us know what form this 'association' of owners needs to take and what the negotiation with Soderev might entail? Any ideas on time and costs?? Does each development need its own association of owners? Would the precedents set by one associations fight with Soderev determine what happens when others try to negotiate with them?
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