Chamrousse Transmontagne

Hi All.

It's very reassuring to be able to share this experience with others! Just to

take things slightly off piste, has anyone else with a Chamrousse

apartment considered terminating their lease formally and claiming

vacant possession? It's something I'm trying to weigh up at the moment.

At the outset we decided to treat the apartment purely as an investment

and not to use it, taking advantage of the maximum yield etc. However,

this experience is making us re-evaluate what we want from the

apartment. We could take vacant possession (in theory...) and use it for

more ski holidays, renting it out via a local letting agency for the rest of

the time. It's going to possibly cost us more - until the rent stopped, it

was more than covering our French mortgage. But on the other hand, I'm

now forking out £400 a month to cover the shortfall and getting

absolutely nothing in return.

It all seems reasonably amicable at the moment and Transmontagne's

letters have been charming enough, but my guess is, if they get taken

over, we'll be in a new rental contract situation and the next company can

impose whatever terms they like. Of course, we don't have to accept

them, but I'm concerned that these managememt companies have quite a

lot of power legally.

This fear is partly fuelled by a conversation with a solicitor yesterday, who

spoke of an example of a Residence de Tourisme where somebody had

taken vacant possession and was then forced to notify the management

company of any occupancy 3 months in advance, including full names

and details etc - making it very difficult to rent out.

Sorry to ramble, but I'd welcome any thoughts - so far I've been lying

back and taking whatever Transmontagne want to tell us, burying my

head and hoping the problem will go away.

One final thing - I have the contact details of an English speaking French

barrister who can look at all of the facts regarding the TVA implications of

taking vacant possesion and terminating the lease etc. It'll cost around

€1000 + VAT. Anyone fancy joining me?

Greetings all,

In reference to posting out the registered letter to Transmontagne I've been in touch with the company that sold us the property in Chamrousse and in turn they have been in touch with their contacts on site. They're saying that Transmontagne are really trying to solve this problem and will be sending out another correspondence next week to say that negotiations with the bank are ongoing and that they hope to settle by the end of July! Therefore, they are advising us to hold off on the letter for a few weeks until we have more information. I would be interested to know what other members of the forum think about this.

Mags

HI

Whilst i don't wish to just ignore the problem and hope it goes away. I shall give Transmontagne another couple of weeks and see what happens.....not least because I shall be away next week. The ideal situation (for me) is for Transmontagne to sort out their problems and pay me the rent. I would rather not see them taken over, so that we all end up with new contracts etc and I'm not keen on the idea of taking over vacant possession.I'll see how July develops. Incidentally having informed Latitudes from whom I purchased the property I have heard nothing other than they would look into the matter. So I'll start chasing them!

Alison

Does any one know if the apartments are still being rented out, as there is no lease agreement in place ?

Does anyone know where we stand with actually using the property for the week from 22/12, as I need to book flights/hire car ?

Many thanks,

David

Hi

I've just recently tried to book christmas week, but was told over the phone that as there was no contract in place I would need to wait until I had a new lease to get confirmation of my booking. I've decided to go somewhere else as i needed to arrange my travel etc.

I believe there is a new lease proposal out soon, but I don't know how that affects when we can stay at the property or when it will be effective.

I'm joining the forum for the first time being an apartment owner at Chamrousse. I bought the place through assetz france just prior to the new year and am yet to receive any rent. I have issued a registered letter back in mid June but have had no response so far. I will keep pushing Assetz for assistence. However, they are publicising their support package which they provide at a cost which I am naturally unwilling to pay for. Does any one else have experience of Assetz France and had any better support from them.

Mike

I Got a booking form from TRansmontagne and returned it via fax, heard nothing back.

I am the owner and am owed thousnads of euros so when i turn up i will turf anyone in MY PROPERTY out!

Any one got a Gendarme phrase book at hand??

I have an update from the property agent we bought our apartment from. Apparently, Transmontagne are going to be taken over, but it is not clear by whom yet, maybe Residhotel, there are several interested parties. We will be receiving three months’ rent in 3 months time and the first 6 months owed will be paid to us either in one go or spread over a period of a few months. Transmontagne have now made their status clear legally and therefore the insurance policies will be able to kick in and pay the owners their rental income, but all this takes time. Valority have certified that we will be getting 3 months’ rent in three month’s time and we should be receiving a letter soon.

So, I s'pose, on balance, this is reasonably positive if it transpires and all goes to plan! Don't know if anybody has heard of Residhotel?

Thanks for the feedback on Residhotel - let's hope it's them and that they honour the terms and conditions of our existing contracts - not 'force' us into accepting less per month than we signed for originally. My husband and I haven't received a cent in rental income yet for our apartment in Chamrousse...having to wait another three months, as a minimum, is going to be painful, as I'm sure it will be for everyone. This is all so very disappointing - we had a fantastic first family skiing holiday there at Easter and were looking forward to many more and some rental money in between! Fingers crossed that the new owners see Chamrousse as an excellent long term investment, plough some money in and 'do right' by the apartment owners. (Or am I hopelessly naiive?)

Neil,

I assume that you are an owner at Chamrousse. Are you a member of ADIDAC, the owners group? We have an English speaking site at http://www.createforum.com/adidacenglish/ There is now a huge amount of information on the site, which should help you.

Please let me know if yoiu need more information.

Best regards,

Martin.

Hello to all private owners in Domaine de l'Arselle (Chamrousse)

I am Christian delisle, private owner in Chamrousse since October 2006.

As all owners are in the same situation: no rent paid by Transmontagne since the beginning of 2007, we decided, after having sent classical letters to Ph. Gausset an our promotors (Valority for myself) to take the advices of a lawyer. We alreaddy met several times Ph. Gausset; He told every time the same story...

The first decision has been to create an Association (further to the lawyer advices). The Association can

1- Have a legal action on the name of ALL members of this association, through one consolidated file, (faster, easier and cheaper)

2- We can have more power and implication in discussions about the new development and possible restructuration in Transmontagne, or research of another company (ies), to manage the Domaine de l'Arselle.

We confirm that yesterday the court of Lyon has decided to put Transmontagne in "redressement judiciaire", under the control of the Court, with a period of 6 months to find the right solutions. We asked to meet the legal representatives charged by the Court to work on this file.

We also have some news about people working in this time in Chamrousse. I'ts true that there are a lot of tourists, and employees are working seriously.

To finish, we try to send to all owners in Domaine de l'Arselle, the information announcing the creation of this Association (created the 7th of July), why we did that, advantages, futur actions and how to become menmber. There is normally an english version of this annoucement. I hope you will receive it. You will see all information to help you to join us into this Association.

If you want more information (if you didn't receive this letter) or become member (the objective is to have ALL owners, i.e. around 400 people), send me by mail:

Name, adresse, the exact reference (number, letter...) of your flat in Domaine de l'Arselle, and the name of the investor company you used to buy your flat (for exemple, Valority fot myself).

We don't want to make fantastic promesses, but you have to know that a small group of voluntaries (around 10 people) are doing a tough business to defense the interests of the owners.

But you also have to know that, of course, ONLY the members of this Association can be defended by it.

Keep the moral!

And excuse me for my terrible English

hi neil

as i understand it , if you wish to take personal control you will have to arrange to have a meter installed. you would also have to repay the vat as your apartment would no longer under the residence tourisme scheme.

if you look at the ecrin des neige thread , you will see translation of the letter from sofisol , which covers the above.

regards

paul

Many thanks for all of your work, Christian. I look forward to receiving the letter.

And your English is much better than my French...

Ben Giles.

Hello,

I'm a French / English lawyer. I'm just posting this for general information... I'm actually on maternity leave so have no interest in this case but I have looked at the Chamrousse Bachat Bouloud development in the spring.

You have understand that the companies that form Transmontagne (TM) group are now in receivership. Effectively TM is now run by the receiver with the help of the existing management. There is a very set procedure for how these things are handled. The receiver will identify the assets and liabilities and bearing in mind the preferential creditors are essentially employees of the company and the taxman. Unsecured creditors - which I assume includes leaseback owners must make themselves known to receiver as soon as possible by way of "declaration de creance" (there is a time limit!!! set by the loi de 25 janvier 1985). This should be sent by registered letter and should set out the details of the creditor and sums owed and what they relate to with documentary evidence.

The assocation can help present these forms but don't expect miracles even if you engage a lawyer. A court won't overturn the rules of receivership should a claim be brought.

If you are looking for a lawyer in Grenoble remember that many are generalists and deal with all manner of dossiers - there are very few specialists in this area and I would reccommend contacting someone who knows what they are doing or you can spend a lot of money for no result.

Someone already posted this link

Transmontagne Goes Bust

but there is quite a good summary of the situation here.
probona39274.8529050926

Thanks for your comments.

I see that you are not owner in Chamrousse.

But if you whish I am available for more precise discussion about

The association formed by Christian Delisle looks interesting and helpful, I look forward to hearing how to join.

Alison

MANY THANKS FOR ALL VERY PROMPT REACTIONS.

AS WE ARE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING IN THIS ASSOCIATION, PLEASE HELP US BY, EACH TIME SENDING:

Your complete name

References of your falt in Chamrousse.

Name of the Investment company, you used.

Personal e.mail address.

Thanks in advance

Sorry for the corrections:

MANY THANKS FOR ALL VERY PROMPT REACTIONS.

AS WE ARE NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING IN THIS ASSOCIATION, PLEASE HELP US BY, EACH TIME SENDING:

Your complete name and personal address

References of your flat in Chamrousse.

Name of the Investment company, you used.

Personal e.mail address.

Thanks in advance

Does anyone know what the position is with regard to stopping mortgage payments on these properties in Chamrousse. Would I lose the properties? I would like to stop paying until it is clearer what the position is.

Regards,

Nick

Nick,

I would also be interested to find out what would happen if we stopped the payments!

Mags

Dear Nick

the only way, to avoid other problems for you, it to find an agreement with your bank. Especially if the bank has been choiced by the investment company.

If you stop paying your mortgage the bank will go to court and issue emergency procedings (they can do this in about a week) before the French Judicial Court (like the county court) they can get any of your assets, including anything in the UK - house, bank accounts they know about, frozen and eventually, sold to pay the debt.

This of course depends on the specifics of agreement you have with your bank, Transmontagne etc but I assume you have a normal mortgage.

If you can't pay then you need to discuss this with your bank. Be warned that French banks are not overly friendly on these issues.

I checked on Lyon Commercial Court's website and they charge for the judgements - so I haven't looked at the Transmontagne judgement to find who the receiver is. Presumably Christian will do this.

Hello

We already received a certain demands to join our Association.

Thanks for your support.

Next week, this new members will receive a complete information in English language about the present situation, and what you will have to do in short term.

I ask you again to use my personal e.mail adress, with your name, address, the reference your flat in Chamrousse, and the name of the investment company you used. I'ts easier for us because directly your mail goes to the Secretary of the Assocition. And of course it is registred, on a complete list.

In l'Arselle there are around 400 owners; our objective is to have all these owners to be more efficient in our actions.

The individual subsription will be 15 euros, per owner. But don't worry we will ask you this money only when you will have received confirmation of inscription and first official information and statuts.

You have to understand that we are a very small group of voluntary owners. I'ts a lot of job and time.

If amoung the first Irish members (we received the last days), some of you are able to translate some French textes, Thanks in advance for your help.

Concerning the questions about the bank and the mortrage, our advice is to have an individual discussion with your bank, in order to obtain a delay.

Once again the new information you will receive next week, will give you a better visibility.

Keep the moral!!!!

I want to ask our bank if we could hold off on mortgage repayments for a couple of months. Can anyone help me to draft up a letter in french requesting this, or am I better off giving them a call?

Mags

you can write directly your letter in english. The banks has competent people to manage them.

As you didn't received any rent since the first of January, you can ask a minimum of 6 months delay.

The next rent (end of September 2007) will be paid (we hope) under the control and responsability of the "Administrateur Judiciaire" named by the court ,and working in Transmontagne since the 10th of July. We can be optimistic.

The salaries of transmontagne employees will be paid by a specialised Insurance company.

I assume all this applies to other Transmontagne property? We own in Termignon and our investment company were unaware of any problems at all until I emailed yesterday, I hope others aren't being duped into buying!

If I'm getting no rent - owed about 5 months worth now then i assume i can change the locks and rent it out privately or even live there myself?

Any ideas anyone?

Got this today

Mr Hodges,

I don't know when you last contacted our offices and what information you
had but things have changed drastically in the last few weeks.

We received information about 2 weeks ago that we were in the process of
being bought by another company due to our financial difficulties. The sale
apparently did not go through as this company were not necessarily
interested in maintaining the status quo and to avoid downsizing of
personnel and resorts (along with owners) Mr Gausset decided to seek help
from the commercial courts as his last resort before liquidating
Transmontagne Residences.

We received information in the form of a press release on Wednesday morning
concerning the decsion taken by the commercial courts on Tuesday. The
companies that form Transmontagne (TM) group are now in receivership.
Effectively TM is now run by the receiver with the help of the existing
management. There is a very set procedure for how these things are handled.
The receiver will identify the assets and liabilities and decide the course
to be taken. Transmontagne Residences have been accorded a period of grace
of 6 months to allow them to either find an appropriate buyer or an
investor.
We do not have more information than this at the moment but we do know that
the head office is going to send out letters to all owners, tour operators,
personnel, service providers etc...who have not been paid in order to
explain the situation and to provide them with a number to phone for all
enquiries. This letter should be sent out at the beginning of next week.
The number you can phone will be manned by one of our directors who should
be able to answer all your questions concerning arrears, future rent etc....

I hope this e-mail helps a little. There is also an exisitng forum that has
been set up by one of our english owners. Why not have a look? I have and
they do have quite a network of infomration both legal and just simply
informative about the situation: http://www.frenchleaseback.net/forum

Regards,
Louanne
TRANSMONTAGNE RESIDENCES
Centrale de Réservation

Autoport du Fréjus
73500 LE FRENEY
Tél : 00 33 04 79 05 57 57
Fax : 00 33 04 79 05 32 39

Dear owners of Chamrousse Domaine de l'Arselle

For those who are not aware, an association has been created to defend the interest of all owners ( class actions, information etc...). if

You can contact me for any further information anh.thai@neuf.fr

We received information in the form of a press release on Wednesday morning
concerning the decsion taken by the commercial courts on Tuesday. The
companies that form Transmontagne (TM) group are now in receivership.
Effectively TM is now run by the receiver with the help of the existing
management. There is a very set procedure for how these things are handled.
The receiver will identify the assets and liabilities and decide the course
to be taken. Transmontagne Residences have been accorded a period of grace
of 6 months to allow them to either find an appropriate buyer or an
investor.

Transmontagne Residence must be reading this forum, those are my words from page 4.

http://www.frenchleaseback.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=144 &PN=1&TPN=4

Has anyone got a letter from Transmontagne yet? I hope they are couteous enough to translate it to English for UK addresses, bet they don't!

To Richard

you will receive all necessary information in the next days.

We are preparing a French blog with English translated parts.

All the members of the Association will receive a direct mail, with all details.

John & Diane Earnshaw here - from the UK. We're owners at Chamrousse - Domain d'Arcelle since last year.

I'm happy to liase with UK owners in the first instance however I only understand basic french and it may be more apt to get someone who is bi-lingual to represent the UK contingent.

Delisle Christian (chr.delisle@wanadoo.fr) who is a Member of Conseil Syndical and Association of Property Owners and also an owner at Chamrousse is actively working to coordinate a unified response and communication with Transmontagne and it's as a group that we will be more likely to get more information and possibly action too.

There is someone who is helping to coordinate the Irish owners and who may post details shortly.

Kind regards

John Earnshaw- dijohnearnshaw@btinternet.com

Hi, I'm the Irish co-ordinator for Domaines de l'Arselle and am trying to make contact with the list of Irish owners at the moment, anyone who hasnt been contacted yet please get in touch with me, brijosullivan@eircom.net

Hello everyone,

I've just found this forum having searched for other disgruntled Chamrousse owners on Google. It is at least comforting to know that I am not alone. A problem shared and all that.

We bought our apartment last December as our first venture into property investment. We visited for a week at Easter and loved the resort.

Everyone on the forum seems to have had siomilar thoughts to mine about the current situation, such as forfeiture of the lease, re-letting through a private agent or just simply keeping vacant possession. These are all options that must be considered carefully as clearly there are French legal issues that will impact on whatever option an owner decides to take.

Obviously the best outcome would be for TM to be sold asap to another established management company willing to honour the terms of our leases.

I am grateful to Delisle Christian for the assistance he is offering the owners and I will be emailing him direct to join his group as clearly we will be in a far stronger position if we can negotiate with any new management co. or the receivers/Court as a large group of creditors.

Richard Penn

To Richard Penn

Just a thought, Richard - you may want to e-mail your details directly to Ben Giles too - he is the UK co-ordinator for the French Association organised and led by Delisle Cristian, and he will add you to the e-mail address book/database of UK owners.

bengeditor@yahoo.co.uk

Apologies if you have already found this out for yourself.

Sally Brunt

Thank you Sally.

Ben contacted me yesterday and has added me to his database.

Kind regards,

Richard

Hi everyone,

We invested in an apartment at La Joue du Loup with Transmontagne Residences as the managing agents. Our lease agreement ran from December last year and like everyone else we have not received any rent. I have emailed Ben Giles who is including us on his mailing list. We would be grateful to be added to Christian's list and to receive any other info that may be useful.

Are there any other owners from La Joue du Loup out there, our development is called La Crete du Berger.

Sue & Bob Bissell